Engine Swap???

[Bluebox757]

Is the engine bay big enough to swap the GT-S engine for a Supra TT engine? You can get more that one thousand hp out of a supra engine, if you can afford it. I think the supra engine is 3 liters and the GT-S engine is 1.8 and thats a big difference, so I don't know if it will work.

[Tripledigits]

I would really doubt if the Supra engine could be fit into the Elise. It's an inline 6, and the engine with transmission is so long you would have to put it in the front seat to make it work. The weight distribution would be good, but there would be no place to sit, unless you could straddle the tranny. The Supra engine with turbo system is pretty heavy. Putting much more than 300 hp through the Elise chassis would, IMO, be overkill. Better off to go with an aluminum engine that'll fit and be light. The Supras they raced (I believe last season) in Japan had been fitted with 4 cylinder turbocharged 500 hp engines.

If my Supra weighed 2400 lbs instead of 3300, I wouldn't be looking at an Elise.

Jeff

[CBRDG]

I Dont Think you would want to do that for a few reasons.

A= this car was made to hanlde you wouldnt need too much power, it would quick around corning just mabe a bit more for the ST8 aways if you want to go fast in the 1/2 mile you might want to concider another car.

B=it would be a waste of money you would be looking almost as much as the car, if not more. by that time you could build a crazy street car

C=Geting a Grip on the Road with that much HP and no weight on the car.

D=that would be really cool to put that motor In a Sand Rail..

Just my thoughts..


David G

[kaj75]

I think engine swaps are something that will be looked at or looked into a little more once the car gets here and a few people blow there engines from trying to put too much power on there original motor. Who knows I just might be that person (Hope not though) I know one thing is for sure I will be throwing a 75 hp shot of nitrous on this baby not long after I break it in. But I will ty to warranty it first then if that falls through an engine swap is sure to come as that would be cheaper than fixing the stock motor and ending up in the same boat I was in anyways. So I think engine swapping is a good thing to talk about. Although no one will really know what engine is best until the cars get here and people start testing on them. I don't know much in this area but a couple of engines to throw out there for consideration would be as follows

1. A rotary motor fairly expensive but small light weight and are capable of 350 hp to the ground with ease and can go up to 500 hp if needed or wanted.

2. SR20det motor from nissan which is really becoming a big hit and can be found at a decent price. These motors can lay down 300hp to the ground with little effort.

3. The new Dodge Neon motor. not sure on pricing but I bet its not cheap. This motor is very capable of over 300 hp range with little effort.

I think these three are my favorites I saw an article somwhere last night online where someone put an Audi motor in one and was pushing 340 hp ot the wheels I think it was. Not sure. But just think of the potential you would have. Granted non of this stuff is cheap and I don't really plan on breaking my Elise, but you do need to be prepared for the worst case scenario if your going to be doing stuff to your elise that might void the warranty.
I have heard that these trannies don't do to well when faced with over 300 hp. THey were talknig about it on the Celica form.

Hey just my thoughts guys I'm new to this forum and figured I would throw some stuff out there. Yalls forum seems to have the most info.

[mason]

Those engine swaps seem interesting (rotary would be awesome) but would require a lot of engineering to make work.

All the engines you mentioned would require a lot of work to configure the engine in the compartment, align the axles to work with the suspension… Not impossible but far from you average Civic engine swap. To get everything right would require a lot of engineering and a fair amount of R&D.

[kaj75]

Very true thats why I hoping that some performance shops will take this car and do a few things with it. Because thats really the easiest way to see whats going to work after all there the ones with all the info, tools, and hook ups. Now that I think about it you might be right. It might be cheaper just to keep that motor and put some good enterals in it lower the compression a bit, and turbo it but even at that your still looking at 10,000$$ and still going to have tranny issues. What about this 3zz motor I keep hearing about I havent reallly researched it ? Maybe it would be cheaper because its just an upgrade from the 2zz. Oh well I probably won't be getting mine until december so I'm sure by then there will be plenty of people tooling around with there new toys so I can learn from others as to whats working.

I still want to see somone put a rotary in one of these things :D That thing would be a monster!!

[jsrsx]

The rotory and sr20det will be extremely difficult and expensive to swap considering their configs are FR, so a custom bell-housing would need to be fabricated for the tranny, OR you could buy a whole new custom sequential, but either way, that's a lot of additional cost. I would still prefer an NA engine in the Elise for the smooth power delivery and response (if FI, a Lyshome charger). A custom 90x90 borexstroke Honda K20A w/ headwork and cams can 300+bhp while retaining a very good rod:stroke ratio and revability. And being an FF layout, would fit far more easily into the Elise engine bay. I would like to see a new Renesis rotory in there also, but the difficulty and cost in the tranny is too great. I prefer the renesis over the previous 13B simply for it's NA nature.

[kaj75]

Theres a few people out there that have put rotoaries in their sandrails and accually one of them lives here in Dallas, TX. So I'm sure some of the things you would need he would already have the anwser for and that would cut the cost down a lot but I do understand what yall are saying it would be quite expensive. But who knows Maybe someone will jump out there and do it that way once somone has gone through all the technical problems and what not others won't have to and it will be a lot more feesable. I mean look at the turbo set up some preformance company jumped out there and did it and now I guess you could say that the prices are cheap enough that some people are able to do it. I just believe that if I'm going to spend 7,000$$ on a turbo kit and my warranty is sure to be gone bye bye, it needs to be relieable and those kits I'm seeing don't exactly make me feel comfortable. Id'e rather spend 1,000 and put a nitrous system on my car if it does go kaboom then off comes the nitrous and into the shop to try to get it warrantied. If they deny then I still have that 6,000$$ to fix the freaking thing and maybe put some better internals in it. I think thats the route I'll be taking. I mean thats the most logical thing I can think of since I want this car based on perfomance and handling it and just a little bit of help it can be a fast striaght line car and a great track car as well. Just My way of thinking.:D

[jsrsx]

Yeah, there's always someone that's done something similar or even identical to what you want...and that's the nice thing. But, often times, ppl do pure custom one-off jobs where pieces were fab'd, modified, etc. and they either can't or won't make another one to do it again. Hopefully, some crazy (and rich) ppl will create some crazy setups and make them available to the rest of us.
I wouldn't mind running a low-boost lyshome charger (a roots would be ok also, as long as I keep the boost low). But on the Elise, I just won't want the lag and off-throttle-response (or lack thereof) of a turbo. A well-built NA setup would be great. If I was going to spend $10k on the powertrain, this is likely what I'd do:

- Resleeve block and increase bore $1000 (84mm?...I've heard the 2zz-ge cylinders don't have much clearance from one another)
- Custom rods and pistons $1000
- Custom cams & valvetrain $1000+
- P&P head $1000+
- Custom header and exhaust $2000
- Custom ITBs $1500+
- Standalone EMS $1500+
- blueprint and balance everything $300-$500

About $10k there and it should be a wicked ride! It'll idle like crap and eat gas like a fat kid w/ cake, but damn, it'll be fun!:D

[kaj75]

Originally posted by jsrsx
Yeah, there's always someone that's done something similar or even identical to what you want...and that's the nice thing. But, often times, ppl do pure custom one-off jobs where pieces were fab'd, modified, etc. and they either can't or won't make another one to do it again. Hopefully, some crazy (and rich) ppl will create some crazy setups and make them available to the rest of us.
I wouldn't mind running a low-boost lyshome charger (a roots would be ok also, as long as I keep the boost low). But on the Elise, I just won't want the lag and off-throttle-response (or lack thereof) of a turbo. A well-built NA setup would be great. If I was going to spend $10k on the powertrain, this is likely what I'd do:

- Resleeve block and increase bore $1000 (84mm?...I've heard the 2zz-ge cylinders don't have much clearance from one another)
- Custom rods and pistons $1000
- Custom cams & valvetrain $1000+
- P&P head $1000+
- Custom header and exhaust $2000
- Custom ITBs $1500+
- Standalone EMS $1500+
- blueprint and balance everything $300-$500

About $10k there and it should be a wicked ride! It'll idle like crap and eat gas like a fat kid w/ cake, but damn, it'll be fun!:D

Maybe you could not go so extreme with the cam and what have you and keep the idle steadier. I like the thinking here. I was thinking some of this stuff like heads pistons, valvetrain,headers exhaust,Nitrous. HMMMM. You would be able to spray a 125 hp shot with ease or maybe a little more.:D

[tboy911]

One problem is no one makes aftermarket cams for this car because they're made from 2 different metals and the current method most cam manufacturers use, won't work.

[Tom]

A Honda K20A or F20C engine conversion is doable. The Honda powertrain will produce 250 bhp with a little tweak.

http://www.prototyperacing.com/

[kaj75]

That web site is a great help !! Thanks for the site man I'm excited now! I emailed them with a few question so I hope they reply back with awnsers. I'll tell you now I have no problem doing a swap for $10,000 with install and everything if it will put my car to 300 at the crank with all motor. That car they did the conversion on did 0 -100 in 8.9 Sec and 0- 60 in 3.7? Holy crap. I'm all over that and I'll still have a brand new motor and tranny for back up just in case something goes wrong. I'm there guys

[jsrsx]

Yeah, my list is definitely extreme, but that's IF I were to spend $10k on making NA power. I personally think the metallurgy of the cams can be overcome with a single metal used through-out...just that the aftermarket manufacturers don't want to take the chance or do the research to make it happen.
If you are looking to do Prototype's swap, it'll cost you far more than $10k to hit 300bhp. Prototype's Exige was hitting about 260bhp when I took a ride, and it was pretty damn st00pid fast!, but his car does only weigh about 1650lbs. The conversion kit will cost about $7k. That doesn't include the K20A powertrain, which is at a current market price of about $5500-$6000, so that's about $13k for about 260bhp. To hit 300bhp, you'll need a more extreme setup: resleeve and bore the cylinders, custom pistons, custom rods, custom crank (Joe at Prototype has said he's looking into a custom 90x90 borexstroke setup), bigger cams (he's been R&D'ing some custom K20A cams for a little while now), and a better flowing head/IM setup. All that will kick the cost up to close to $20k! I think a low-boost (5-6psi) SC would suit me fine.

[kaj75]

Okay you talked me into it. I could settle for 260 hp but I think that was to the wheels or at least thats what his dyno was saying. Oh well any way around it 0-100 in 8.9 seconds is pretty freaking fast and I think that would make me happy but 13,000 is pushing my budget. It's still doable.