Has Anyone looked into...

[CBRDG]

BTW I am David near Los Angeles and ride so if anyone does please hit me up. and new to this board, It seem like the best lotus one i have found.

Get a GTS motor and Stroking it to 2.0?

I plan to drive mine toy a whole lot and after a while, I was mabye way down the line when i pay the thing off, to BUILDING A SILLY MOTOR,

Finda LongBlock

Stroke to 2.0

Tit valves, spring, retainer,
Cams, light port
mabye even give it a clean up mill, and Welding

i dont think i would go that far, but i saw some of you guys talking about Swaping Crazy motors and Blowers, i think you could actuly use this power and it would be pretty fun and probly quicker than supercharging it..

just a thought from my dreams of going fast around cornings with all motor power!
Dave G
CBR 01
Tacocma 03 <--- soon to disapear:D :D

[Rtrac1]

stroker kits for the 2zz are already available. its known as a 3zz kit. Trial makes it (along with many other really good parts for the 2zz)

heres a link. TRIAL 3zz

im new to this site, but I already have a 2zz in my car

[kaj75]

Im not sure what to think about that! 220 hp? for 6,000$$ plus intall. Ew I would want more ponies for that much money. You could do a turbo kit with low boost for the same price and get more ponies out it. I'm thinking a better intake manifold, stronger pistons,replace the heads and a turbo , oh and maybe a clutch and of course exhaust and you would be at 300 hp to the wheels safely. the question is how much will all of this cost. Light weight Flywheel and better crank would be wise too. Your looking at 10,000 grand easy without instalation. Gosh this stuff is expensive. its that damn turbo that keeps throwing the cost up so high. $5,000.

[CBRDG]

I dont think that would be a good idea for this car.

Depending on what you want to do with this car, getting power from a turbo kit i think would be a bad idea..

Yes it is more cost effective, and yes you would have more hp

however you would have turbo lag which is really crapy in corning threw tight corner.
you want something with good throttle responce found in N/A cars. this is power on demand.
i driven many turbo cars and it is very exciting when the turbo kits in however some cars just were not designed for it. the elise being one of them..

get a surpra or wrx
323 turbo or celica all trax if you want a turbo car

I bet you that if I had a 250 hp elise n/a
and you had a 320hp elise turbo

you would loosing in the canyon or on the track
and perhaps 1/2mile beacuse traction

but being in tx the isnt too many corning to go around so mabe you dont care too much..

my thoughts

Dave

[jsrsx]

I'm not that big on the turbo option either, tho it's not quite as expensive as you think (or at least, not in the places you think). A turbo doesn't cost $5k. A good turbo, for the application, can be had for $800 or less, brand new. Other models are higher depending on features (ball-bearing) or brand (HKS, etc.). There's a lot of hidden costs that ppl don't always take into account w/ turbo setups tho (fuel system, management, drivetrain, etc.). A roots/eaton-type (or ideally, a twin-screw, tho too costly) SC would be more ideal for the throttle response and power availability, if you're looking into FI.
As for stroking, the 3ZZ kit is available along w/ several domestically made "copies". All use the 1ZZ (MR-S) crank modified to fit in the 2ZZ block (via spacers). The kit makes ~1931cc (not really 2L). I don't mind stroker kits as long as the stroke isn't too long. The 3ZZ kit stroke is pretty long and greatly reduces the rod:stroke ratio. At higher engine speeds, piston acceleration and side loading on the sleeves would be extremely high and not conducive toward reliability. Fine for a race motor that will be torn down and resleeved, but not for something you want to drive for a VERY long time. Also, a stroker kit alone won't do too much. The oem cams won't be able to flow enough to make huge gains and take full advantage of the additional displacement. I've always said, and will continue to say, the MOST limiting factors for the 2ZZ-GE is 1)cams! and they CAN be made! 2)header (a custom long-tube header...none of that shorty crap that does nothing for pressure wave tuning) and 3)ECU (to some effect, as the ECU's not hackable...it can be replaced w/ a standalone unit, but that's much more costly and more work overall). Get some good cams and a header, and the normal 1.8L 2ZZ will surprise many.

[kaj75]

Originally posted by jsrsx
I
I've always said, and will continue to say, the MOST limiting factors for the 2ZZ-GE is 1)cams! and they CAN be made! 2)header (a custom long-tube header...none of that shorty crap that does nothing for pressure wave tuning) and 3)ECU (to some effect, as the ECU's not hackable...it can be replaced w/ a standalone unit, but that's much more costly and more work overall). Get some good cams and a header, and the normal 1.8L 2ZZ will surprise many.

I thught sombody said that they don't make aftermarket cams fo rthis motor because of the materials it was made out of. If so what company do you think would build them for you. I'm like you I would think that someone would be able to make aftermarket cams for this motor it doesnt make much since not too. There are lots of Celica guys out there trying to get more out of their cars and I think there would be a market for it. Headers are going to be hard to get because of the new motor being in the Elise and all they will have to be a different shape.
One last question why is Lotus able to take the ECU and reprogram it but were not able to do the same.

[ChrisB]

Originally posted by kaj75
I thught sombody said that they don't make aftermarket cams fo rthis motor because of the materials it was made out of. If so what company do you think would build them for you. I'm like you I would think that someone would be able to make aftermarket cams for this motor it doesnt make much since not too. There are lots of Celica guys out there trying to get more out of their cars and I think there would be a market for it. Headers are going to be hard to get because of the new motor being in the Elise and all they will have to be a different shape.
One last question why is Lotus able to take the ECU and reprogram it but were not able to do the same.

I suspect that, besides the manufacturing difficulty due to the metallurgy, the cams in the 2ZZ are already pretty wild. Normally there is a real compromise with street cars to get a reasonable idle and low- mid-range torque. Tuners can shift that compromise way to the other end of the scale for those willing to put up with that compromise. However, with the 2ZZ VVTL-i, it has cam lobes for both purposes already built in. The high-speed cam lobes are pretty wild. If you locked the high-speed cam followers in permanently, low RPM performance would be horrible. You can see the torque curve dropping off like a rock as the high-speed cam nears the low end of its operation. About the only place to go with this engine is to higher RPM...and there isn't a lot of room to go there either. with a fairly long stroke, the higher RPM operation might significantly affect engine life.

Someone may be able to build better headers, but building long ones will be a problem because there isn't much length in the car to work with. As it is, the headers dump right into the cat & muffler. Probably the biggest benefit you will get with an aftermarket exhaust is weight...albeit at a pretty good cost. Lotus will be offering lighter, louder exhaust systems as dealer-installed options, as well. They can't build them in the car due to noise regulations to certify the car.

Lotus didn't just reprogram the ECU, they completely replaced it with their own, more powerful one.

[jsrsx]

I still believe cams can be made for the 2zz-ge. Yes, there's 2 different alloys used...a sintered metal for the lobes, which is then brazed to the shaft. The sintered metal lobes match the material of the hi-cams' slipper follower. I'm sure they used 2 metals to reduce the weight of the top-end rotational assembly (the shaft is likely a lighter metal). Now, take a look at similar aftermarket cams, namely Honda, which has a similar system. The advantage (aftermarket-wise) of the honda cams is that their rockers are all made of the same metal. However, most aftermarket honda cams (including the biggest names such as Toda and Jun) do not use OEM materials. They found an alloy that gave the performance and durability they needed. I'm sure there can be some sort of "in-between" alloy that can be lighter than the OEM toyota sintered metal used on the lobes, and perhaps slightly heavier than the shaft metal, that will provide adequate friction (or lack thereof) and durability (to both the cam and the followers)...just that no aftermarket manufacturer has yet sought to R&D this deep enough yet. The celica owners have definitely voiced their desire for cams, but it's just them...not many mr-s owners have yet installed 2zz's, so the market's fairly small. Take a b-series honda engine...every integra and civic owner wants cams, and from 2-3 generations of automobile chassis...that's a much larger market. It can be done, and at a decent price, but most don't want to invest the R&D needed to find what's needed.
As for headers, I've posted a very nice header design for a K20A in an Exige...it's curvy and windy, but it fits and has enough length to tune the pressure waves. An exhaust will not do much for performance unless the stock system is extremely restrictive (which I doubt), so many ppl will be disappointed when they see ~3bhp gains max from their new exhaust. A header is where the tuning is done. By the end of the collector, so much energy is lost that the exhaust just needs to be sized correctly to exhaust the gasses out while retaining enough heat energy (velocity) to do it within a decent amount of time.
Hopefully, the Lotus ECU is hackable...but I doubt it since most OBD2+ ECUs aren't, or are only hackable to a very limited degree. A piggyback like the Greddy E-manage may be enough tho.