factory supercharger?

[cuenant]

I read on www.evo.co.uk an article about the exige that said in the last paragraph that a factory supercharger in in the works as there is already one offered for the celica. All I could find from TRD was a superchrger for the corolla. Could this be a mistake or is there really some huge power on the way?

[Ridgeman580]

The 1.6 engine in the Mini can be fitted with a supercharger, thus producing their 'S' model. Would have to believe that the Elise 1.8 should also be able to receive one. May have to find a bit of room for it
and that could mean reducing our trunk space for whatever rearrangment is necessary. Mason may have to lay this
plan out for us, giving us the best utilization of space that is possible. He's solved every other problem anyone has ever come up with on this site so I see no reason to believe he will fail us now.

[cuenant]

going to be a problem keeping that thing cool too.

[mason]

Originally posted by Ridgeman580
May have to find a bit of room for it
and that could mean reducing our trunk space for whatever rearrangment is necessary. Mason may have to lay this
plan out for us, giving us the best utilization of space that is possible. He's solved every other problem anyone has ever come up with on this site so I see no reason to believe he will fail us now.

Errr... Ummm...

Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I think a Supercharger is a little beyond my theoretical planning (at least until I get my hands on the Elise).

Supercharger is interesting, but IMHO to make the 2ZZ-GE last with forced induction will require the compression ratio to be dropped from 11.5:1 to something a little more sane like 10.0:1. At 11.5:1 you’d have to run the boost so low I would hardly think it’d be worth it.

To add Forced Induction to the Elise, space, heat, and compression ratio will all need to be dealt with. I’m waiting to see what kind of FI kits become available and how each one addresses those concerns unique to the Lotus Elise.

[cuenant]

Mason do you think then that EVO is mistaken then? It is true that the engine is probably already quite stressed puting out more than 100 horse per liter N/A but rarely have I read things in EVO magazine that where completely wrong like this.

[TigerFan21]

The April 5, 2004 Autoweek has write up on a TRD tuned Matrix. It sports a whole lot of show car bling but does have a roots-type blower bolted onto the engine. After you read through you find out the blower is only availble on the 1.6 matrix, celica, and corolla. ($2,995) TRD said " If you have the higher-output 1.8L inline four.. you'll have to wait. Your high compression engine has proven difficult to tune reliably with a supercharger. But be patient." A supercharged elise would be fun but I think the recent Stardale comparison shows that this car is something special out of the box. But If your a horsepower whore your probably gonna be waiting a while for the TRD blower kit. If they cant figure out what to do with the 2zz no aftermarket company will.

[LITEW8CRAZY]

I know this is on another thread, but you gotta check out

http://monkeywrenchracing.com/toyota.html

They have custom pistons with rings for $500. They are listed as 8.8CR for your turbo or supercharger needs!

They also offer flywheel, clutch, stud kit, connecting rods, injectors, valves and springs and limited slip differential. I totaled all these parts and it'll come to around $3500 minus installation. A couple of places are working in turbo kits that should push HP up to around 300. This would give a power-to-weight ratio of 6.667 or about that of a new Viper. The turbo systems will run around $3000. Installation I would guess would be around $3000 total for the rebuild and turbo installation (I have a local place that specializes in doing this type of work). They did a custom twin-turbo Mustang Cobra that produced 880hp.

So, for around $10,000 total for the engine work, you can have a supercar that will run away from just about anything (including F40 & F50 Ferrari's, I've seen videos of moded S1's) on the track for around $55,000! WHAT A BARGAIN!!!

[stevej]

There is a lot of talk on this site about more horsepower, almost all ideas about more power will add weight and this weight will necessitate other changes, in particular suspension. This fits well with the review in yesterday"s LA Times of the Elise, where they compare the American, German and British approaches to fast cars. Starting with Newton's Second Law of Motion and how it works for cars, the author states, "The never-terribly-subtle Americans have long favored the F side of the equation — raw, stinking, fire-puking horsepower, the more the better, Ã* la top-fuel dragsters and NASCAR stockers. Call it the Zen of the Bigger Hammer." The Author then talks about the British who have tried to reduce mass in the equation. It maight be interesting for a discussion here about reducing mass in the Elise. It would be interesting to know where the wieght comes from and what could be done to reduce it. At the extreme I would suggest that the fiberglass body is part of the problem and that it would be interesting to see what carbon fiber panels would do for the weight. I paddle a racing type of sea kayak (surfski) and it is made of carbon/kevlar and this gives a 40% weight saving over an equal strength fiberglass boat. An all carbon boat saves another 10%, but is prone to shattering under impact. The cost difference is around 40% when you go from a fiberglass boat to a carbon or carbon/kevlar boat. By the way, these boats are around 20 feet long and weigh aroound 20 pounds. I bet there are lots of ways to save weight - i.e. throw out that second seat since you need the space for golf clubs anyway. Give the radio and the AC a chuck, etc. Looking forward to the comments.

[Vangman]

Steve - I agree with your comments to chuck the radio and ac. However, I can't image you'll see much of a gain moving from glass to carbon. It is true there is a weigth savings in your kayak but that's beause the carbon fiber is the structure. Carbon gives you a better strength to weight ration than glass. But in the Elise, the fiber glass outer shell is there for window dressing. It is not an integeral structural part of the car like the monocoque of a Formula One car. I would guess that Lotus made the glass shell as light as possible and there would be only minial weight savings. The other question that follows is then, what is the gain in acceleration per dollars spent lowering the weight of the car? Is the few pounds of weight you save worth the investment you'd spend to replace all the glass panels with carbon panels? Could that money be better spent doing other modifications to the car that would generate a more favorable spending ratio? That's just my thought.

[cuenant]

Lotus uses a fiberglas composite which is unlike regular fiberglass making it quite light. Very light stuff compared to other fiberglass cars.

[LITEW8CRAZY]

stevej

I agree with making the car lighter (look at my screen name), but with a car this light, I think it's going to be cost prohibitive. They definitely make carbon-fiber body panels for racing applications (see the photo section under elise additions- page 5). The last bit of weight savings is going to cost the most without a doubt. You could change out all the fastners on the car to titanium, carbon fiber body panels, carbon racing seat, chuck the radio & ac, replace the back window and side windows with Lexan, get magnesuim wheels, replace heat shields with lighter units, etc.
I don't know the exact costs, but I think this would definitely cost you over $10K, for who knows how much weight savings. When you factor in the hp/weight ratio, I think the added power will over come the weight savings. Just do a quick calculation: If you can get 300hp from a turbo charger and add 50lbs to the 1995 curb weight, the hp/weight ratio is 6.812. In order to get that same hp/weight ratio with 190hp and just reduce the weight you'd have to cut the weight down to 1295lbs. or a weight savings of 700lbs.! I don't think there are 700lbs. to be cut from the Elise. It's already a flyweight when it comes to this issue. The best bang for the buck is to add horsepower.

[jsrsx]

The 2ZZ-GE runs FRM sleeves, so though the price of the pistons is only $500, they don't mention that you need the $$800-$1000 resleeve to run the pistons. Aluminum pistons and FRM sleeves don't mix well, as shown by many H22A and F20C owners. A high efficiency lyshome (whipple's are readily available) charger should be able to bring output up to about 250bhp at about 5-6psi...low boost for the high compression...that brings it up to 996Turbo territory and enough for me.

[Ridgeman580]

Originally posted by jsrsx
The 2ZZ-GE runs FRM sleeves, so though the price of the pistons is only $500, they don't mention that you need the $$800-$1000 resleeve to run the pistons. Aluminum pistons and FRM sleeves don't mix well, as shown by many H22A and F20C owners. A high efficiency lyshome (whipple's are readily available) charger should be able to bring output up to about 250bhp at about 5-6psi...low boost for the high compression...that brings it up to 996Turbo territory and enough for me.

what do figure would be the total installed cost for what you describe?

[jsrsx]

For the custom whipple charger setup...the cost of the whipple charger is about $1500-$1600 retail (for a 1.2L to 1.6L charger). I have no idea on what it would cost to fabricate a custom intake manifold to hold the charger tho...the actual cost would depend on the complexity of the IM needed. Then, there's the custom pulleys, shafts, and belts. And some sort of tuning ability. If the 2ZZ-GE in the Fed Elise comes w/ the mechanical throttle linkage, then you can likely run a Power FC standalone ecu to tune things in, which costs about $1200-$1500. I don't know if a piggy-back would work w/ the setup, but it'd be a lot cheaper. I probably won't look much further into this idea until I have something in front of me to play with (or till one of my friends supercharges their nsx or upgrades the turbo on their skyline gtr). You can try contacting some fabrication shops about the IM...that would probably be the most costly item (aside from the charger).

[Ridgeman580]

Originally posted by jsrsx
For the custom whipple charger setup...the cost of the whipple charger is about $1500-$1600 retail (for a 1.2L to 1.6L charger). I have no idea on what it would cost to fabricate a custom intake manifold to hold the charger tho...the actual cost would depend on the complexity of the IM needed. Then, there's the custom pulleys, shafts, and belts. And some sort of tuning ability. If the 2ZZ-GE in the Fed Elise comes w/ the mechanical throttle linkage, then you can likely run a Power FC standalone ecu to tune things in, which costs about $1200-$1500. I don't know if a piggy-back would work w/ the setup, but it'd be a lot cheaper. I probably won't look much further into this idea until I have something in front of me to play with (or till one of my friends supercharges their nsx or upgrades the turbo on their skyline gtr). You can try contacting some fabrication shops about the IM...that would probably be the most costly item (aside from the charger).

thanks for the info.