U.S. Elise Not Getting Toyota Engine!

[Ridgeman580]

The 2ZZ-GE engine in our Elise was designed and created by Yamaha. It is the most recent in a series of Toyota performance engines created by Yamaha,
the first of which was a Formula Atlantic Racing version (the 4A-GE).( Anyone extremely upset by this information should contact their dealer immediately and get back their deposit.)

[Cyclon36]

It's still the Celica GT engine though, right? Plus Yamaha has been know for quality in the bike market. How bad is this news? Also, how long has Toyota been using this engine in their cars and how much input does Toyota have in the manufacturing?

Of course I'm sure it's still way better than the Rover and the performance numbers are still what they promised. I think you'll be hard pressed to find anybody that will really change their mind about the whole thing.

[stevej]

The Yamaha connection to this engine has been know for years and mentioned on this forum many times. I think the engine is actually manufactured by Yamaha as well? The Elise seems like a car designed for a motorcycle engine. There are cycle engines that make 200 HP with 1000cc's of displacement. Also cycle engines have been on the leading edge of high rpm and valve technology. I would think the bigger problem will be the bias against Japaneese cars often expressed on these pages - the comments about "rice burners" are a good example. Having owned an NSX and a type R I think there is a hell of a lot to be learned from the engines these companies make. I also suspect there are some people in Formula One who might agree.

[mason]

Just to clarify, the engine block is manufactured by Toyota, Yamaha has helped with the head work. Yamaha is well known for its high revving efficient head design in the motorcycle world. Yamaha has also been involved with many other manufacturers (much like Lotus) in helping them with engine R&D.

If you look closely at the ends of the 2ZZ-GE you’ll see the Yamaha logo on the ends of the heads. Personally I embrace the Yamaha technology as I have a 600cc Yamaha engine that currently puts out 120hp stock (200hp per liter) and sings to 16,000 rpms.

[Ridgeman580]

Originally posted by mason
Just to clarify, the engine block is manufactured by Toyota, Yamaha has helped with the head work. Yamaha is well known for its high revving efficient head design in the motorcycle world. Yamaha has also been involved with many other manufacturers (much like Lotus) in helping them with engine R&D.

If you look closely at the ends of the 2ZZ-GE you?ll see the Yamaha logo on the ends of the heads. Personally I embrace the Yamaha technology as I have a 600cc Yamaha engine that currently puts out 120hp stock (200hp per liter) and sings to 16,000 rpms.

Mason: How am I going to get 11 guys ahead of me on the reservation list to cancel with you telling everyone how good Yamaha is in the engine industry?

[fitfan]

Mason,

I am curious... is there a list of engines and their weights? i wonder what the 2zz-ge weighs in comparision to a comparable honda, etc/all, motor?

[Cyclon36]

Originally posted by Ridgeman580
Mason: How am I going to get 11 guys ahead of me on the reservation list to cancel with you telling everyone how good Yamaha is in the engine industry?

This just in from Lotus headquarters R&D department:

"It looks as though there was a huge mistake on Toyota's part in producing the engines for the new Elise. It seems as though they mistakenly mixed the engine block metal with ordinary cardboard to save weight and now the engines are just spontaneously combusting killing everyone in the car! 0-60 times have increased to 10 seconds flat and the quarter mile doesn't even register on clocks without a calendar."

Well, I'm keeping mine for asthetic reasons, but I urge the rest of you to drop off the list for sake of your lives.

[Ridgeman580]

Originally posted by Cyclon36
This just in from Lotus headquarters R&D department:

"It looks as though there was a huge mistake on Toyota's part in producing the engines for the new Elise. It seems as though they mistakenly mixed the engine block metal with ordinary cardboard to save weight and now the engines are just spontaneously combusting killing everyone in the car! 0-60 times have increased to 10 seconds flat and the quarter mile doesn't even register on clocks without a calendar."

Well, I'm keeping mine for asthetic reasons, but I urge the rest of you to drop off the list for sake of your lives.

I 'second' this suggestion by Cyclon 36, and will also keep my car
in a clear 'bio-sphere-like' container for show purposes only. Since these containers are quite pricey, I believe most of you out there are better off just bowing out of your reservation now.

[mason]

Originally posted by fitfan
Mason,

I am curious... is there a list of engines and their weights? i wonder what the 2zz-ge weighs in comparision to a comparable honda, etc/all, motor?

The Toyota 2ZZ-GE being all aluminum has a very respectable weight it is heavier than the Rover motor it replaces but does have A.C. and a significantly more power.

Here are some approximate engine weights:
189lbs Rover K series
253lbs Toyota 2ZZ-GE

[jsrsx]

mason: are those weights just for the longblock or the complete powertrain assembly (engine, tranny, alternator, p/s, manifolds)? A K20A weighs about 320-330lbs complete...tranny's about 75lbs dry (estimate), so K20A longblock w/ manifolds and alternator,etc. weighs about as much as the 2zz-ge. Wish they had put a K20A in there.

[mason]

These weights should be complete without the tranny.

[fitfan]

how is 253 the same as 320-330?

if the weights are apples to apples, i would take the ~75lb lightness over some extra hp

[jsrsx]

Thanks mason.

fitfan: My posts above states the longblock w/ manis and alt is the same...325lbs for complete powertrain (includes tranny) minus ~75lbs for tranny is 250lbs for complete engine assembly w/ manis...thus, same weight, bigger honda engine, more potential and aftermarket support.

[fitfan]

ahhh.. that readin' and 'rithmitic thing got me again

I have been doing some internet searches, but haven't found any sources where you can compare the weights and know what componets are in/excluded??

[jsrsx]

Yeah, engine and tranny weights are pretty hard to find. Most ppl just know the weight of one engine relative to another w/o the actual numbers. the K20A would've likely brought the cost of the Elise up quite a bit. the K20A is about 20lbs lighter than the older B18C.