Sports Package vs. Not: Wheels and Tires

[Bob in Utah]

Hello All!

This past weekend I went to Steve Harris Imports in Salt Lake City, and got to see and compare a Saffron Elise Demo Car that had a Sport Package/ Non-Touring with a Preowned Orange Elise, that's for sale, with a Sport and Touring Package.

At long last, I was able to see what the Sport Package wheels look like...and my impression is that the extra inch on the front wheels makes the front look "beefier."

My question: What is the major visible difference between the tires on the sport package? Is the tread different? Is the rim to edge height different? Lastly, though I have no intention of taking the car on the track; these "sticky Sport package tires," are they good in every day weather ie: rain, occassional snow?

My pennies are limited, so I'm debating hardtop or Sport Package,
...as you can see, I'm into "looks", hardtop vs. beefier front?

Thanks, Bob in Utah
Ardent Red/Biscuit/Touring...Sport Package?, I dunno?

[Stan]

I'm not sure, but it sounds like you haven't had a chance to do a thorough test drive or two. Many of the for-looks folks find that the car is pretty hard core and if you're not really into driving, the car is too hard to live with. Neither of the tires the Elise comes with stock are intended for snow. The sport tires are a lot grippier than the touring tires. But the normal tires on the Elise are already much grippier performers than average cars. The sport tires are much noisier and stiffer on bumps. You need to know things like this and do thorough test drives to make sure this is car you can stay happy with.

[Bob in Utah]

Hello Stan!

Thanks. You're right in that I have test driven the touring packaged Elise a couple of times now...but not with the Sport package. Does the "Sport tires" lower the car?

and...

These tires as packaged by Lotus...what can you expect in terms of tire wear mileage?

Bob in Utah

[Stan]

Bob there is no functional reason to get the sport package unless you really need it as in track days, racing and so forth. The sport tires grip great but probably won't last past 10,000 miles. At a guess the touring tires should last 2 times longer or more. If I were you I'd try some more test drives. Pay attention to the sport package tires over coarse surfaces, highway expansion joints and in terms of tread sound against the pavement. The lower civility is only worht it if you need extra performance. Remember that the stock touring suspension is already way sportier than most cars. You can outrun ZO6 vettes with it in the twisties if they are also right out of the showroom. If you like the wheels I'd suggest changing the tires to pure street tire like a performance all-season from what I read in your words. Let me know if you have any more questions. No sense regretting something later on. The sport package is insignificantly lower than the base suspension. You are right that the wider wheel (+1 inch) and wider tire (real world nearly 1 1/2 inches wider) help the front look. Here is a pic of the two front tires.

[Bob in Utah]

Hello Stan!!!

God Bless You! I couldn't have gotten a better reply...with pictures no less! Holy Cow!

Yeah, I'm approaching 50 and this is my last fling. I am a 60's European Exoticar Fanatic. Through the years I've always had a sports car:

1970 Mustang GT
1984 Audi Quattro
1986 Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce
1988 Pontiac Fiero GT 6 Cylinder
1988 Porsche 924S

...but they have never been of the performance or pedigree as let's say...a Ferrari, Maserati, Lamborghini, Aston Martin...or a Lotus. I'm enjoying the wait, and investigation, of what appears to be the last great "Sports" car. I ride motorcycles, so "the ride" isn't a factor (being rough), but I'm more concerned of "the look" as well as the smile factor with G Forces, going into/out of a curve.


P.S. You were so nice to take pictures! I don't know how you did it, but you DID!

Regards, Bob:D :D :p :p

[rijk365gtb4]

I have a Euro Series II in the Netherlands, and just ordered a US verion for in the States. I choose the sport package, because I suspect that they softened the US version too much (the US version is a whopping 400 LB heavier than the early Euro versions). I did not get the touring option, because I do not want more sound deadening materials and a lined roof. I will not take this car to the track often, but I hope to get the rough, pure experience I have with the Euro version. Am I wrong?

[Larry]

I'm approaching 60, but like the same kind of cars I did when I was 20. For me, the Elise is the ultimate . . . better than a Corvette or even Ford GT, Ferrari, etc., because driving it is a pure driving experience without unnecessary size/weight/etc. As such, I ordered the LSS because if I'm buying the car for it's handling/driving experience, I figure I might as well get the best.
The LSS not only includes the wider front wheels and tires (which really minimizes understeer and sharpens 'turn-in'), lowers the car 1/2", but also has the springs/shocks/alignment tuned by Lotus for maximum cornering potential.
According to what I've read, the suspension bushings are a little softer than the European version whether you get the standard or LSS and most reports say the U.S. LSS car is pretty close to the standard European version.
Another thing you might want to consider if looks are more important than ultimate performance would be to get the standard car and buy a set of aftermarket wheels and tires. You could sell the stock ones on eBay. The Tire Rack currently is offering a winter wheel/tire package that has 15"x6.5" front wheels and 16"x7.5" rear wheels (Moda/TR Motorsports R2 . . . same width as LSS wheels, but 1" smaller diameter front and rear). If you went with 195-55 fronts and 225-50 rears, your Elise would be slightly lower than stock . . . about the same as an LSS car, but with a little taller (more comfortable) sidewalls.
Now you have a little more to think about!

[Stan]

Thanks for the kind words Bob, glad I could help.

Check out these performance tests I performed on the Elise during an autocross using the base tires. Pretty good grip!

Elise Tested On Base Suspension Tires...

[Bob in Utah]

Okay Stan...I need your honest opinion...and anyone else reading this.


So last night, I go thru all my car magazines, looking at various angles, similar positions, and side-by-side visual comparisons of the Sports Package Wheel outfit and the Standard wheel package:

Here's what I conclude with two questions for you. I think I like the look and performance of the Sport Package Yokohamas. However, front and side by side comparisons lend me to believe that the "delicate, thin" "top of the front-fender" design clashes with the wider tires...when you look at the front profile. The standard package tires, and WHEELS, look more refined with the overall look of the car (sort of like the Dino Ferrari.) My question is this:

1. The standard wheels are alloy. The brochures say they are in shocking silver, which makes them brighter, especially with the eight spokes. They seem to stand out more. So, are the "forged-alloy" wheels on the LSS package as shiny, and that means that they are "More Raw" and hence, more true-to-track look? Do you agree?

2. I called "The Tire Rack," and they said they can put the LSS Tires on the standard rims. This one-one 1/2 inch difference less on the Sport Package tires...In your imagination, how do you think, these tires would perform on thinner front rims:


How's that for being obsessive about tires and wheels. I want to make the right choice, and not "leave anything on the table", meaning have the best looks and performance at the same time.



Bob in Utah

[Stan]

>>>1. The standard wheels are alloy. The brochures say they are in shocking silver, which makes them brighter, especially with the eight spokes. They seem to stand out more. So, are the "forged-alloy" wheels on the LSS package as shiny, and that means that they are "More Raw" and hence, more true-to-track look? Do you agree?<<<

The LSS wheels are a natural aluminum finish that has been clear anodized. This sort of finish can be stained if you use a harsh wheel cleaner on them ONE TIME. So be careful. The base wheels are powder coated which is hardier. The finish is like the M3 / M5 BMW wheels - shadow chrome or hyper black. You should see the wheels in person.

>>>2. I called "The Tire Rack," and they said they can put the LSS Tires on the standard rims. This one-one 1/2 inch difference less on the Sport Package tires...In your imagination, how do you think, these tires would perform on thinner front rims:<<<

The rear wheels are the same width the fronts differ from one another by an inch. The tires would work just fine on either wheels for normal use. LTS tires are still grippy but are much more civilized than the sport tires. Neither are suitable for cold winter use or snow.

Stan

[andykeck]

Originally posted by Stan
LTS tires are still grippy but are much more civilized than the sport tires. Neither are suitable for cold winter use or snow. [/b]

I would suggest that attempting to use the sport pack tires in cold rain and snow might be considered a suicidal act.

[Bob in Utah]

Thanks Stan and Andy Keck!

I just looked at the hits this topic is getting, and I'm sure all are getting a good education. So I'll try to keep this thread going.
I agree that the basic wheels look better, and will clean up easier.

So what do you guys think about the sport package tires on the basic rims? How do you think a thinner (by of course one inch) will handle on the thinner, front basic rims?

Bob in Utah...where it snows!

[andykeck]

I think there's at least one guy on one of the other boards that's done just that and reported good results. I sort of remember that under very hard driving (autocross?) the extra grip can lead to the standard suspension bottoming out.

[Bob in Utah]

Thanks Andy,

I'll try to find that post. OUCH! Does it bottom out because you can adjust the suspension on the Sports Package, or because it was taken to the track and run hard?

Bob in Utah

[andykeck]

Originally posted by Bob in Utah
Thanks Andy,

I'll try to find that post. OUCH! Does it bottom out because you can adjust the suspension on the Sports Package, or because it was taken to the track and run hard?

Bob in Utah

I don't remember the specific details but I think in general, the issue is that the sport pack tires generate more grip at the very limits than the standard suspension was designed to accomodate. Really, the only difference between the sport and regular suspension is slightly stiffer springs and revised damping to deal with the extra grip of the tires. Otherwise, there's not really any adujstability to speak of.