Suspension Upgrades

[LastToy]

I currently have my second set of double adjustable coilovers in my Audi. The aftermarket kit certainly improved the handling of this cow (not a good comparison since we are talking about Elise now). I'm familiar with the type of adjustments I have to make when I want the handling characteristics to change certain ways. However, in practice, much easier said than done. I find it extremely difficult, if not impossible, to fine tune the shocks to their optimal setting. I hardly even notice the difference unless I'm making extreme adjustments. The reason for getting this setup was to have a soft ride on streets and stiffer setting on tracks. For a "pure sports car," I just want a right setup. Do factories always do better jobs?

Shocks are extremely important for load change characteristics (turn-in). However, spring rates determine under/oversteer (the majority of the turn). The spring rates on the stock Elise and the Sport Package seem pretty high to me. I know that Porsche 914s use less than 100lbs spring rates in the rear and people are racing with 180lbs spring rates in the rear. I belive 914s are 200-300lbs heavier cars than Elise. Should Lotus have called their "sport package" a "race package" instead? Help me out here. Do those spring rates seem very very high? Am I going to lose my fillings driving the sport package on Boston roads?

[mason]

IMHO the LSS spring rates are not too aggressive for on road driving.

Don't get me wrong the LSS 211/289 will be firm but I don't believe that it will be unbearable.

Shocks also make a difference for general ride quality, I'd think if the suspension was a little too firm for the street it could be made a little more compliant by using a set of adjustable shocks.

Of course your mileage may vary, I ran an STX prepared MINI last year with around 300 lb springs and drove it on some long trips with race seats. I thought the ride was very livable my only gripe was the springs lowered the ride height so much that the front of the car was constantly scraping (nothing to do with spring rate).

[235home]

Is the LSS 211/289 what comes on the Sport Package?

[LastToy]

Stock set up comes with 190lbs front/267lbs rear. Lotus Sport Suspension (LSS) comes with 211lbs front/289lbs rear. If that wasn't your question, I apologize.

[235home]

That was it, thanks!

Looking forward to seeing posts from members when the car becomes available as to how the two set-ups to compare in terms of ride quality, i.e., is the sport set-up a good idea for someone who spends more time on the street than on the track.

[edgar]

Hello everyone,

Greetings from Hong Kong.

In order to bring out the best of your S2 Elise

I would first recommend that you should change your front tyes to 195/50 and rear tyres to 225/45 and there is only one tyre: Yokohama 048 LTS compound which is about M-S compound

As regards to suspension, I have tested standard, LSS, Nitrons and Dynamics kits with different spring rates and damper rates and alignment settings.

As a general rule, for road use S2's, it would be best to leave everything standard ( that means checking after delivery all the alignment settings and ride height are at standard ) I have tested the S2 quite extensively on track and the factory settings provide a stable and good fun car to drive. The rear would break away progressively with lots of signals until it spins if you don't try to correct it.

The ultimate is to change back to 6.5Jx15" fronts and 8Jx 16" rears for really good and soft compounds and the handling will be transformed.

It is not recommended to lower the ride height to below 120mm front/130mm rear without steering rack plates to align the steering arms.

The LSS is a good track-road compromise with increased spring rates but works best with ride height at 110/120mm and increased front camber to -1.5 degrees and -2 degrees at the rear.

If you drive long trips on motorways, the front toe out may be adjusted to zero toe to tame the wayward straight line stability at the expense of a less eager front to turn in which makes it less tiring.

Nitrons NTX I have on my Silver S1 and is more track biased which has ceased production and now they come up with the new NTR series, rebuildable as well. I go upto 450/500lbs springs on track.

Dynamics are 2 ways adjustables running in excess of 500lb springs and is for track use.

AVO is rubbish and so are Spax.

One more tip is to use Nylatron wishbone bushings for best response and directness.

Will post on brakes separately.

If you get a chance to test the S1, you must do so and see the difference between the original S1 and S2.

[edgar]

First, the standard bilstein dampers and springs are very good for road and a few track days in standard setup.

Lotus factory spent thousands of hours coming up with a good compromise with the LSS kit ( non rebuildable )which I fully recommend at about 900GBP and should come with a slightly stiffer ARB

You may not find alot of choices for the short stroked dampers.

There are dedicated suspension kits for the ELise:

1.Nitron NTR is a popular choice and they make dampers for Penske at 880GBP and rebuildable

2. The motorsport Elise uses Dynamic dampers at 2500GBP; rebuildable

Issue with the front ARB ( adjustable roll bar ) is that it shouldn't be over stiff, something like 2-2.5X stiffness would be useful.

I have spent the better part of last 2 years testing the Elise setup.

The LSS I think is a good compromise for mainly road use and occasional track use. IT is both progressive at the limit on track and yet compliant enough for road use.

If you go for Nitrons then you can go upto 400-500lbs springs and is track biased whereas my Dynamics are using 500-600lbs springs.

The alignment setting are quite different for different functions but the LSS is a very good starting point.

You really don't want to find the limits of the Elise on public roads. Especially with the S2 or S3 whatever you want to call it because in standard suspension, it is set to understeer. Lotus chassis engineers have used the front bump steer to help tame the rear when it is about to step out. The bump steer changes with the ride height settings.

So in short: follow the factory settings and familiarize with the limits of the car before making any changes.

[jdwek]

I have no problem with teh suspension setup in the LSS mode. My only worry is that I willbe buying new tires every 2-3000 miles. Is that true? How long does the sticky stuff last?

JD

[mason]

From the tread wear indication on the Yoko A048 I'd expect to get 3,000-5,000 miles of spirited street mileage from them. If you mix in some autocross or track days a little less.

Thankfully the Elise is light weight so it won't be as rough on tires as a heavier car but the A048 is not a high mileage tire.

[SpeedRacer]

Originally posted by mark starr
I spent several Days with Nick Adams who is in charge of Vehicle Development/Lotus Engineering for the Elise project at the LA Auto Show. He KRINGED every time someone came in and started talking about suspension changes on the Elise. Engineering has spent THOUSANDS of hours fine tuning the suspension on the Elise. If you plan on using it for the street, LEAVE THE SUSPENSION ALONE!!!!! If you plan on using it on the track often, BUY THE SPORT PACKAGE!!!!!! You are buying a Lotus for what it is known for, a great cornering, lightweight, nimble true sports car. I have the Nitron suspension on my Exige and find myself trying to fine tune it every time I go out on the track. Should I stiffen it of soften it? My partner is drving on the stock suspension and there is no noticable difference in lap times. THEY GOT IT RIGHT FROM THE GET GO!!!! Drive with the stock suspension and leave it alone. Every modification has a domino effect. Even changing tires. The sport suspension was tuned by Lotus after thousands of hours using different tire, height, bushing, shock, spring and whatever settings are possible to change. I feel comfortable with what they have done.............That's my two cents here..........

Ditto. Had the same experience with Nick at the show. The average tweaker expecting to improve on Lotus' thousands of man hours and millions of £'s ? Speaks for itself.

[Tripledigits]

Originally posted by WholeFNShow
Why increase your handling when the Elise is the best handling street legal car ever test driven???

For track use, the best handling street car still has room for improvement, although with a compromise.

[Yargk]

Originally posted by LastToy
I currently have my second set of double adjustable coilovers in my Audi. The aftermarket kit certainly improved the handling of this cow (not a good comparison since we are talking about Elise now). I'm familiar with the type of adjustments I have to make when I want the handling characteristics to change certain ways. However, in practice, much easier said than done. I find it extremely difficult, if not impossible, to fine tune the shocks to their optimal setting. I hardly even notice the difference unless I'm making extreme adjustments. The reason for getting this setup was to have a soft ride on streets and stiffer setting on tracks. For a "pure sports car," I just want a right setup. Do factories always do better jobs?

Shocks are extremely important for load change characteristics (turn-in). However, spring rates determine under/oversteer (the majority of the turn). The spring rates on the stock Elise and the Sport Package seem pretty high to me. I know that Porsche 914s use less than 100lbs spring rates in the rear and people are racing with 180lbs spring rates in the rear. I belive 914s are 200-300lbs heavier cars than Elise. Should Lotus have called their "sport package" a "race package" instead? Help me out here. Do those spring rates seem very very high? Am I going to lose my fillings driving the sport package on Boston roads?

One thing to remember is that with improved damper technology and suspension design, much much higher spring rates are possible with a decent ride quality. The stock 914 spring rates were made for acceptable ride quality with 1970 suspension and damper tech. Also there may be a difference between the spring rate at the wheel and at the spring itself (different suspension geometry and lever arms), so the 914 and Elise rates may not be directly comparable. Going back to the damper tech idea, the current GT3 has a higher spring rate than the previous model, but ride quality improved due to less friction in the dampers.

The sports package is only 10% stiffer than the standard suspension. I don't see this as a huge difference. It's a big adjustment if you're just tuning for the same application, but not for complete different applications. (occasional track time vs. no track time)

[Gedi]

Most of the UK boys use Nitrons along with 048's

Go onto SELOC and do a few searches. People who track regularly swear by them.

Ohlins have also released some real fancy 3 pointers which will be released with the special edition VX220's. A few people have tested them and gave them a big thumps up.

[235home]

Originally posted by mason
From the tread wear indication on the Yoko A048 I'd expect to get 3,000-5,000 miles of spirited street mileage from them. If you mix in some autocross or track days a little less.

Thankfully the Elise is light weight so it won't be as rough on tires as a heavier car but the A048 is not a high mileage tire.

3,000 to 5,000 miles for a set of tires? You've got to be kidding. I wonder how many of the 40% of Elise buyers who order LSS realize this?

[mason]

I recently talked to a friend abroad who has run the Yokohama A048LTS on the street and he tells me that 10,000 miles could be possible, depending on driving style.